richard5933

Update: The tanks have been repaired/updated/refilled/re-installed. I performed the usual leak test with copious amounts of soapy water. The propane dealer installed new fill valves, POL (output) valves, relief valves, and did a re-certification on both tanks. I installed a new 2-stage regulator using new rubber hoses I had made at a local shop. A bit of information about this that I picked up in the process follows. It should be applicable throughout the US if the propane dealer's information is correct. Can't speak to any specific state requirements outside of Wisconsin though. There are two types of propane tanks in use on RVs. There are the DOT tanks and the ASME tanks. If a tank is permanently mounted in a horizontal position AND is an ASME tank, then it does not require re-certification. DOT tanks and anything not permanently mounted horizontally needs to be re-certified after the first 12 years and then every five years after that. The relief valves are good for ten years and should be replaced after that. I'm told that only tanks require certification, not hoses or accessories. Our tanks are over 40 years old. As far as we can tell, they have never been re-certified or worked on in any way. Doesn't even look like they were ever filled once leaving Custom Coach in 1974. Since our tanks are DOT tanks, they required re-certification. Other than the valve replacements, the tanks are in good shape and just have some typical surface scratches/rust. I don't anticipate having problems getting them filled in the future, as the dealer put the re-certification tags in a place which is easy to see. Each of our tanks holds 33 pounds of LP (just over 7 gallons liquid) and weighs in at over 70 pounds each when full including the weight of the tank. Not the lightest things around, but still manageable by one person. Cost of all we had done was as follows: Refilling: $50 Valve replacements and installation: $120 Taxes & Hazmat fee: $10 Regulator/hoses: $60 Total: $240 This was an unexpected expense, but in the scope of things it really wasn't too bad. In the end we have two safe tanks installed and filled. They will hopefully serve us well until the next re-certification in 5 years.

If you're talking about where is the outlet for you to plug in the block heater, then the answer is that it's different on almost every make/model. Some don't have an outlet at all. We have to run an extension cord right now to plug in the heater. Installing an outlet in the engine bay is on my list for this spring.

I think that you meant this as a different kind of tire overload, but that may actually be the best place to start the conversation. Especially if you are trying to decide between 16 and 18 ply (or load rating for the tires in general), I would say that getting a current weight on the coach is the place to start. Until you know the actual weight front & rear it will be very difficult to properly choose the load rating needed. If you get a tire with too high a load rating you're wasting money and getting a harsher ride than necessary. If you get too low a load rating then you put safety at risk. Once you know the load rating required, you can start comparing apples to apples from brand to brand. The only other piece of advice would be to find a good tire dealer near you that is not owned or associated with just one brand. Provide them with the information you have and ask for help selecting tires. You might spend a few dollars more in the end, but I've found that most dealers will work with you on price within reason. Best part of this is to establish a relationship with a shop that can help you when the inevitable problem arises down the road. There is nothing that can beat having a locally owned shop on your side when you need them.

If only two of the injectors had build up on them, would it be appropriate to check to see if everything is okay in those cylinders? Logically speaking, if this was caused due to a lack of something in the fuel (additives, etc) then wouldn't the build up be present on all the injectors and not just two?

Not quite in Kansas City, but there is a nice state park in Lawrence KS with hookups.

Is this a state-by-state rule regarding tagging of hoses? I had the new hoses made today, and the guy said that there is no requirement to tag hoses. He seemed to imply that doing so was not possible, and that only the tank would need certification. I've got the new hoses and a new 2-stage regulator all ready to mount. Tomorrow I'll be picking up the tanks, but of course the temps are forecast to be in the teens until the end of next week. Might be a few days until I actually get these things installed and leak tested.

I appreciate the suggestions on various ways to fill the tanks or use portable tanks, but the reality is that the only thing using the propane in the coach is the furnace. I suspect that the two tanks combined will take us longer than we'll be staying in one place and our plan right now is to just fill the LP tanks as needed when we stop for diesel or to dump our black tank. I'm not looking forward to reinstalling the tanks once they are serviced and filled. Can't imagine that I'd want to make this a regular habit. Even if they did remove easily, and even if they weren't so darned heavy, we don't travel with a towed vehicle so it wouldn't do us any good. Before anyone questions why we travel without a towed vehicle, the answer is simple. We don't need one. The coach doesn't have slides or leveling jacks. On the occasion that we have to pull up anchor and run to town it really doesn't take all that long to get things going. And if we really don't feel like moving the coach, we just call an Uber or taxi.

You'd have to provide me with your definition of 'permanently installed' before I can really say. They were bolted in place and certainly not designed to be removed for filling. They have separate ports or filling and for the hose connection, and they appear to have never been removed since being installed. The hoses are not attached with quick-release, and the bolts were proper nut & bolt (not wing nuts). To me, they were certainly 'permanently installed' and mounted horizontal. If so, where do you see something that indicates certification being required? I will double check with the propane dealer when I pick up the tanks in a few days.

You can also try here: https://www.steelerubber.com/rv

Brief update... I got the two tanks taken to the propane dealer today. The tech said that they are in need of updating to comply with current DOT regs (and of course repair to the leaky valve). They are still in good condition overall and will not take too much to get up to snuff so that they are safe to continue using. After the repair/upgrades they'll fill them so I can just reinstall and be done. Sounded like I'd end up with a re-cert, even though technically speaking horizontal tanks don't require such if permanently mounting according to the info I found. Interesting mounting method used on these tanks. They each have a metal ring on the 'bottom' of the tank (as seen if stood up vertically). The compartment which holds these two tanks horizontally has cradles in it. The tanks slide into the compartment lengthwise resting in these cradles. At the back of each cradle is a round wooden disc sized perfectly to mate with the bottom of the metal base on the tanks. When they are slide in, only one bolt is necessary at the front to secure them in place. I love it when simple solutions like this work so well. I'll try and remember to take a couple of photos when I remount the tanks. Regarding the hoses/regulator... The propane dealer directed me to another shop in town that does LP equipment, hoses, etc. I'm going over there on Thursday to have two new hoses made up to the correct length to replace the current rubber hose and the hard copper tube. I'll also upgrade to a new 2-stage regulator. After all this things should be good to go. Sure is nice to have local shops that can get this stuff taken care of. Milwaukee was once called "The Machine Shop to the World." Good thing enough of the old places are still around that it's quite easy to find places to work on things here.

Not sure how this works on a more modern coach than we have, but on ours it's really important to get the proper 'heavy duty' blades and/or refills if you want them to last more than a few months. There are regular duty blades out there that will fit your 24" wipers, but it's my experience that the regular duty blades just don't hold up to sun and wear. Wipers are not that expensive, even for the heavy duty varieties. That being so, I try to opt for the option that is least likely to fail.

According to the article cited, there is nothing about ceasing production of Diesel engines. It says only that the vehicle will be offered with gasoline engines in the US for the first time. Is there talk elsewhere of actually ceasing the Diesel offering? Or, are thy talking about adding an engine to the lineup and offering a choice?

In my experience, yes. When my step van had the fuel gel on the way to work I had to have it towed to a shop. They left in inside for a few hours and then were able to start it like normal. Then they could add the anti-gel additive and get it worked through the system. I could have tried blowing a torpedo heater at it, but it was just too cold to even bother that day. The joy of life in the north!

Thanks everyone for the information. I agree with Herman - the fill valve on the one tank is leaking and will be replaced. Can't do it right now since it's just too cold to work outside for more than a few minutes. As soon as I'm able, I'll pull both tanks along with the hoses and regulator and take the whole thing to a local propane dealer. I'll ask them to inspect and repair as necessary. If they can't repair, then we'll start the process of replacing. I'm pretty confident that the valve's rubber seals have just gotten hard and dry over the years, and the tech at the propane dealer agreed that it could be something as simple as this. Could also be something much more involved. Won't know till he sees the tanks, of course. Other than this issue, the tanks only show a little bit of wear and surface rust around the very outside parts of the handles. I would doubt that they've been used much and fortunately they are located in a dry bay and have not been exposed to weather. There are gauges on both tanks, and they appeared to function up to just a few weeks ago. The one tank whose gauge showed content a few weeks ago is the one that leaked, and at the moment it is showing nothing. I have a photo taken from when I first noticed the smell which showed '20' on the level. Now it shows '0'. Regarding the markings on the gauge itself, I don't read them as indicating the actual content of the tank. There are three lines to the text: Propane 50/50 Pro-Bu Butane To my reading, this is information about the rating of the gauge, not the content of the tank. There are other marking & instructions on the gauge about filling, etc. I will have to confirm this when I take the tanks in for service. That's all I got for now. I'll do my best to report back once I get the tanks in for service and have more information. Maybe others can benefit from whatever I learn.

Looks like the OP is in Michigan. Whether they are selling #1 or #2, any fuel sold this time of year should definitely have the proper winter additives in it to prevent gelling and temperature related problems. That said, if Michigan is anything like Wisconsin it should be possible to find #1 fuel at most major truck stops or even places like Kwik Trip. If your engine can run on #2 in the warmer weather, I'd suggest checking with the fuel dealer to see if the #2 they sell this time of year is winterized. I'd be surprised if it wasn't. One place I bought from said that in the winter they only sell #1, regardless of what the pump said. Maybe not the best example of truth in advertising, but at least they were trying to keep customers from having gelling and cold weather issues. Point is that it's important to look past the label on the pump and ask questions of the fuel dealer to see just what is being sold. I think that the bigger problem would be someone filling a tank in the south and then driving into the north where the temps are low. Without proper additives it could be an expensive trip when the fuel system stops up from gel formation. I make sure to add the proper amount of anti-gelling additive to the fuel starting in late fall so that it's well into the fuel lines and filters before any chance of cold weather is even on the horizon. Had problems with my step van (Cummins Diesel 4BT) the first year I owned it - it arrived from a southern dealer with summer blend in the tank and the lines were gelled stem to stern before it was rolled off the trailer. Happened again a short time later until I was able to get the old fuel fully worked through. I'd agree that adding kerosene to a modern diesel is probably not a great idea. Before trying that I'd want to have the manufacturer's recommendation for minimum fuel requirements. Same goes for selecting the proper additives. Some engines are very fussy and certain additives should be avoided. Any local farm store (around here Farm & Fleet or Fleet Farm) should have shelves of additives to choose from. Hope this helps.

Horizontal would be my first choice since that's what's in place at the moment. Should the tanks need replacing however, I'm seeing mixed information about whether or not it will be possible to find replacements that will fit into the space where the current tanks are kept. Most of the newer tanks I'm seeing have the fill valve located midway down one of the sides. I've got two tanks, stored one above the other, with only the ends exposed to the outside. They are very similar in appearance to forklift tanks. I'll need to find new tanks with a similar setup if I have to replace them. That's the main reason for considering vertical - more options and easier to retrofit with something other than what's in there now. I'm not in the mood to reconfigure half the coach just to position new tanks somewhere else, and there is surprisingly little unused space in the bays.

Just got back from the propane dealer in town, one that I trust. The valve is apparently leaking. Obviously it shouldn't be. Once the weather warms to the point I can work outside for at least a few minutes (still in single digit temps here) I will pull the two tanks and take them in for repair/inspection/etc. I'll bring the regulator along with me so that it can be inspected as well. My only concern with removing them is in getting the connections made again when I reinstall so that nothing leaks. I just don't seem to have good luck re-using fittings or resealing plumbing once it's opened. If the tanks are still deemed serviceable, I'll ask them to replace the plumbing (hoses) between the tanks and the regulator to minimize failure points. If necessary, I will replace with something else. By the way, these tanks do have a vapor tap and based on how the plumbing is connected I'd guess were designed to be refilled in place (not removed for filling). Not sure how that worked, and not sure if it can still be done that way. I suppose that the two horizontal tanks could be replaced with two vertical tanks if necessary. I'll have to take measurements to be sure and bring them along with me when I take the tanks in in case we go that route. Anyone know what the proper regulator setting is for these things? My only appliance running off of propane is the furnace, so I assume that I'll need to have them set the pressure regulator for that. If they are checking we might as well check everything. Oh - the joy of old machinery! If I didn't love it so much this would be a real pain.

I'll be going to a local propane vendor today to see if they have any advice. The cover is missing in the photo because I had just taken it off for the photo. It was in place and clean prior to this issue. The LP furnace is the only thing using propane in the coach, and it has not been used in years. I'd suspect that the LP in the tank has been there for years. I'll report back once I hear from the propane place in town.

Noticed a strange smell around our bus today while checking on it. Finally realized it was the smell of LP. I checked on the tanks, which I'm positive I had firmly shut off before the recent cold spell. We have two horizontal tanks. One was about 2/3 full last time I looked. When I opened the cover on the tanks, the tank which was full has a coating of frost on the end of it, with a small pile of what looks like fine snow built up under the fill valve. Pressure gauge on both tanks now reads zero. I'm assuming that the tank which was partially full leaked out. Is this something that can be connected in some way to the sub-zero weather or just coincidental? Can tanks leak like this because of extreme cold? If so, any precautions to be taken? First time having LP so I'm not sure which way to go on this. I'm guessing that one of my stops once the weather warms and I'm back on the road will be to the local propane dealer to have the tanks serviced, but I sure would like to know what's going on and what to expect. UPDATE: I did a little more looking and inspecting this evening. The fill valve is definitely the source of the leak. In fact, I was easily able to push in on the center of the fill valve and open it. I'm thinking that either the pressure was much lower than I thought and the super cold weather brought it down even further, which allowed the valve to let loose and seep, or possibly the rubber seal got too hard in the cold to continue to make a tight seal. Or, if there is a spring in the valve possibly it no longer has then necessary umph to keep the thing closed properly. Anyone have any experience changing out the valves on these older tanks? I'm wanting to avoid changing them out totally since I don't think I'll easily find a new one that fills on the end like ours.

If you just bought the coach recently then unless the previous owner kept good records you won't really know the maintenance history of the Aqua Hot unit. These units work great, but they do require maintenance on a pretty tight schedule to replace things like filters and the nozzle. There is a guy named Lloyd De Gerald who is an authorized repair guy for these things. If you call him tomorrow maybe he can walk you through things on the phone. He worked with me to get my Webasto up and running and seems like a straight shooter. http://lloyddegerald.com/ You should also talk to him (or whoever you finally get to help you service the unit) about getting a few spares on hand for when you need them.

Check the manual for your inverter. If it's turned on, even with no load, odds are it's still drawing power from the batteries. The manual should show what the at-rest current draw is.

Are you saying weight imbalance affects ride height or that ride height affects weight imbalance?

Seems like more of a difference than I'd expect. Was the measurement on the rear axle(s) as out of balance as the front? Without knowing the specifics of how things are laid out in your coach it would be hard to know what could cause this, that is if the measurements are accurate. Even a fully loaded water tank or fuel tank wouldn't account for this much of a difference left-to-right, so it would have to be something pretty big. To my knowledge if the coach is sitting level when weighed the air bags would not account for this discrepancy. When I get results which are skewed so much my first step would be to re-measure, and I'd do so on another set of scales (hopefully scales known to be accurate.)

Does this help? https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/faq/who-must-comply-electronic-logging-device-eld-rule Seems to me like only 'motor carriers' are required to comply with driver logging - I could not find anything in the regs that applies to the driver of a non-commercial vehicle. There is lots of information on the site on the regs in general for those interested: https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/hours-service/elds/electronic-logging-devices I've seen lots of confusion about things like this, especially with some states now adding additional licensing requirements for drivers of larger Class A rigs and for those with a GVWR above a certain point. From what I've seen, those states that require additional licensing requirements (class b license, etc) are doing so with a non-commercial license. My coach is wearing 'Motor Home' plates and is not a commercial vehicle. Same probably applies for 99.9% of all vehicles discussed on this site. If someone is using a commercial vehicle to pull a 5th wheel things would be different, but that would probably be an outlier.

And of course if LEO is involved they will often step in long before any roadside assistance program even has time to pick up the phone. When our previous coach was involved in an accident, the trooper only allowed me about 5 minutes to try and get in touch with a tow. After that he stepped in and contacted their local go-to guy who showed up before I could even get roadside assistance on the phone. Oftentimes reality trumps whatever plans we make. I do what I can to be prepared, and then I try my best not to stress when things turn out differently.