dickandlois

Kevin, Just got to read your reply. Getting into fall up North and been working on some windows. When removing the plugs, pulling the wires off the plugs can be difficult. So remove the wire from the plug coil first by lightly twisting it to break it free at that point first. Then remove the wire from the plug. This allows you to add a twisting motion to the plug wire and the plug shield and lessen the chances of damaging a good plug wire. There is a Mylar sleeve inside each shield, brown in color. There is a spring at the bottom of the shields. You may need some real short extensions for the plug socket. Like a 1" in some spots and a 3" most of the time. Put just a little anti-seize on the plug threads before installing, even if you are not replacing them. 18 ft-lb is plenty of torque. Tighten the plug with the wrench to a snug point, then a honest push on the wrench. You might get about a16th. of a turn more. I have always used a 3/8in. socket for the job. Always put some dialectic grease on the inside of the rubber boots before replacing them. The 8.1 L is a good engine, been an issue with the crank and cam sensors on some production runs and it was built for power not economy. Some owners have informed me that they run middle grade fuel in them and the difference is price is offset by better MPG. That is a tough one because we all drive differently and with different road conditions. Rich.

Ron, Try this link and maybe a phone call will get you the needed antenna part(s). Might be a good start for you to check on a ladder. The link goes to there section on antennas and then you could see if they could supply or suggest a vendor for ladders. http://rvadenver.com...accessories.htm Rich.

I need to ponder the growl sound. Could you expand on if you where downshifted when the engine quit. The transmission fluid is pumped by the engine turning pump(s) in the transmission and with the loose of pressure due to engine shutdown the pressure loose could have made for a lubrication issue. Did you place the transmission in neutral while pulling over to the side of the road? When you have something like this happen, ones mind gets loaded with what is going on and how do I make a safe stop. You are not alone about not placing the coach in neutral under this situation. The engine quitting item that comes to mind is vapor lock. This is a fuel injected engine and they are less prone to vapor lock because the fuel is under pressure. Have you changed the fuel filters? The fuel pump pressure could be lower then required, but you do not mention any problems while climbing grades. Big dog mentioned reading the OBD codes to see if there is something stored in the ECM and is a good starting point. A complete check of the fuel delivery system would be a good starting point if there is no information stored in the ECM. You mentioned lacking information regarding the coach an this link might help to get some information. http://fleetwoodrv.c...nualsByYear.asp Rich.

This is how to recheck the last code the generator set. you mentioned a code 36. Did you check the oil level? Restoring Fault Code Blinking: The fault code stops blinking after five minutes. Press Stop three times within five seconds to restore blinking. Note that the last fault logged will blink, even after the condition that caused the shutdown has been corrected. ENGINE CRANKS BUT DOES NOT START (Fuel delivery, glow plugs or engine are marginal) Corrective Action: 1. Check fuel level. (Note: The genset fuel pickup is probably higher than the vehicle engine pickup.) 2. Prime the engine fuel system by holding the control switch down in its Stop position for at least 1 minute. 3. Check the engine air filter and remove any blockage (Page 16). 4. Replace Fuse F3 (glow plugs) if blown (Page 6). Brett and I mentioned or ask questions that relate to Glow plug issue, so check fuse 3. Do you have the manual so you can locate the fuse mentioned ? There is another fuse, that if blown will prevent the unit from turning over. You mentioned that the air filter was changed and that it starts at low altitude OK. There might be an issue with the air intake system beyond the air filter, if the old filter allowed dirt into the intake pathway. Rich.

Got more questions then answers for now. What year is the generator ? Will it start easy at a lower altitude? When its running and you drive to a higher altitude does it run OK? Other then the reduced output that altitude causes. How many hrs on the generator? Have the fuel and air filters been serviced? Hard stating when cold even at lower altitude ? Rich.

Kevin, You did not mention what engine you have. The O2 sensor voltage range must be correct if you are not seeing a check engine light. It should change the fuel mixture by changing the injector on/off interval in relation to the information from the MAP sensor and the O2 sensor. Dirty injectors can effect combustion efficiency. The unburned fuel smell and blacker tailpipe discharge. If you have access to a OB2 scanner, read the codes and if possible drive the unit with it connected to the OB2. You can then monitor the engine performance and note any abnormalities. The unit should give you any misfires and which cylinders, injector performance, mass-air flow and engine data in general. That will give you a baseline to start from. I would check the air filter, the spark plug condition. You might want to run some injector cleaner through the engine. A gray white buildup on the electrodes will indicate whether you have some oil in the upper portion of the cylinder(s). Large engines will burn some oil and that is not all bad. Rich.

Good Point Andy ! Reading your post, I went DUH !!! I just had two new tires mounted and it never came up. It's the little things that you miss. Thanks Rich. DUH.

More possible suppliers of parts needed for Coach repair. Used Parts added 9-29-2012: http://en.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/c/miscellaneousrvparts-accessories.pl? http://en.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/f/usedrvpartsrepairandaccessories.pl RV hardware Latches and Fasteners. http://rvadenver.com/latches_and_fasteners.htm Rich.

Jim, Do not know if this issue relates to your problem,but it might be worth looking into. Newmar Mountain Aire Diesel Push 2007 Consumer Complaints Fail date miles occurences Purchase date VISIBILITY 08/08/2008 4000 1 Heavy rainstorm, wipers running on high speed. passenger side wiper stops moving & impedes the drivers side wipers movement. visibility drops to nearly zero, and makes getting to a safe place to stop very difficult. rv manufacturer replaced the wiper motor/shaft & wiper arm as the splines were completely wiped smooth. happened again a year later. same scenario, same wiper. same damage to the wiper motor shaft splines & wiper arm splines. *tr Read more: http://www.faqs.org/car/newmar-mountain-aire-diesel-push-2007/#ixzz27vVmCA7s Rich.

John, Try this link. http://www.n8fan.net/item/2006-monaco-lapalma-owners-manual/ Rich.

Stock number 41974 Monaco/Winnebago Compartment Door Latch OEM part number. E521 $12.99 Link. http://rvadenver.com...d_fasteners.htm This is what your latch should look like. Check to make sure the latch is OK. Then check to make sure they move in and out when the handle is pulled. Also check the ajustment on the catches fastened to the opening around the frame area and that the catches are tight and set so the latch can properly slide behind them and far enough to keep the door(s) closed. The screws can loosen over time and the U shaped catches can move out of there proper orientation. Rich.

From your description, it sounds like there was or still is air in the system after the lines where replaced. The system is 4 years old and when you lost the fluid from the loose connection, there may have been some damage to the pump. I have lost fluid and lines. Had the pump motor rebuilt on one unit over the years. Rich.

Hi Wes, You could post the year and models you are considering. Know you listed the Revolution LE. Someone out there is driving them. Rich.

Mike, have a copy of the brake light wiring for a 2003 model year. I will try to attach it to a PM to you. Hope it helps. It attached to a Private Message so you should get the diagram. Try to check for a bad ground on the black wire. Red wire changes to a Black and White wire. Goes to Terminal strip 1 labeled Brake. the light should come on when you use the Engine Brake / Via the engine brake relay. The other path goes to the brake switch. These switches are generally part of the air brake valves under the coach brake pedal. The switch is part of the valve assemble and J2 circuit is dedicated to the Cyclops Brake Light. Rich.

Eric, The fact that there was a crack in the fiberglass over the cab kind of sets off a thought. You might want to run the Vin number through Car Facts. I do not know it they list Coaches. also, the fact that they repaired the crack, does not necessarily mean they checked for other issues. From time to time when dealers are driving units to shows, they get busted up for a number of reasons. They patch them up and sell as new and never mention this fact. I was at my repair shop this spring and saw one a driver from a dealership messed up real good, when he missed an off ramp and hit the divider head on. Needless to say it was not one anybody would want to buy, if they had seen all the damage. Just my 2 cents worth on this one. Rich.

Try this link and add your location information for the closest dealer. http://www.trojanbattery.com/Products/Marine-RV.aspx You could buy them on line, but you would have shipping fees. Rich.

Roger, the model and year of the Buick you mentioned is not listed for flat towing. This is a direct link to the FMCA, 4 down towing list for model years. http://www.fmca.com/motorhome/towing/204-towing-guides-towing-four-wheels-down Rich.

This link will show how to setup and change items displayed on the three line Light Bar Display used on some of the newer coaches. There have been some requests for this information popping up on some web pages. Hope this helps those that need the setup sequence on this forum. There are 2 pages of information, so use the slide bar on the side of the first page to see the Options page. http://www.search-do...r-ignition.html This link is to an Owners manual and covers a lot of information on different chassis, but particularly model years 2006 and 07. Chapter 2 covers the LBCU system in great detail. It is a little heavy, so the first link is easier to understand, but lacks in detail and deeper system diagnostics. http://www.rvtechlib...ners_manual.pdf Rich

Talley, If you do not have the manual for your Generator this is a link for the 4000 watt gas unit, should you be able to download it. Hope the information helps. http://www.cumminson...ls/981-0503.pdf Rich.

Astmi, you posted --Mechanic changed the fuel and air filters. It seems that the gene could run. By could run, do you mean the mechanic got it running? Or did they just change the filters for you? There should be a delay before your model generator starts to heat up the glow plugs and prime the fuel system. Bad fuel pump? Maybe ! You mentioned that it would run for about 2 minutes, then quit in your first post, I take it that the issue now is it will not start at all. There are fuses in many of the coach circuits the can fail. Like one in the DC charge wiring from the Alternator and the Generator. Have you measured the voltage at the batteries when the engine is off? The Reading/ What is the voltage at the batteries when the engine is running? What is the voltage at the batteries when plugged in too shore power. With out the generator running its not possible to know if they charge when its running yet. The current reading you had when the generator was running could be the charger / inverter running at high charge (normal when it first starts charging) Then the charge rate decreases over time, till the batteries reach there float level. Got to find my generator service information to see if I can find any information on where and how the start delay circuit works. That is a new one for me. This is the information that covers what most owners can do or have checked before repair center intervention. ENGINE CRANKS BUT DOES NOT START (Fuel delivery, glow plugs or engine are marginal) Corrective Action: 1. Check fuel level. (Note: The genset fuel pickup is probably higher than the vehicle engine pickup.) 2. Prime the engine fuel system. 3. Check the engine air filter and remove any blockage. You mentioned that the fuel and air filters where replaced ! 4. Replace Fuse F3 (glow plugs) if blown. If it blows again, go to Step 8. This step is not listed as it requires removal of the generator cover panels,best performed at a service center. Fuse is located under the circuit beaker panel. 5. Check for fuel and air leaks at each fitting in the fuel supply line. (Note: White smoke indicates air in the fuel.) 6. Conduct a fuel flow test and service as necessary. There are a number of other service steps, but they require removal of the generator cover panels. 7. The other personal addition to check is the Oil pressure sender, this should set a code in the control module. Should this be the case you will need to have the engine serviced at a repair shop. Rich.

Oceancouple, Could you post the Model, Make and Year of your coach ? That would help pin down what type of system you have regarding the 12 volt system and how things might be wired. Rich.

Snuffle, Welcome to the forum! The only item that comes to mind is the alignment of the rear tires. Did you have the car loaded heavily ? This could have altered the alignment of the rear tires. Always something new to think about. Rich.

This is a link to a PDF file covering the operation and regeneration of the Catalytic convertor and emission system on the 2007 and 2010 EPA compliance equipped Cummins engines. http://cumminsengine...pdf/4971233.pdf Rich.

Also add one quart if you use the larger two quart oil filter. The 454 on my 87 Bounder took 7 quarts with the larger filter. Good to check the level on the dipstick with 6 quarts in the engine. I also filled the filter before installing it and starting the engine so the oil pressure would build up ASAP. Rich.

I took some time today to put together the information covering the different fuel delivery systems and how they work on the P-30 Series Chassis. There are always some variables due to supplier and run changes. So it is good to have the Vin number when you find things that are a little different, when working on the systems. It is a little long and did not cover carburetor information. They are a subject in themselves. Rich. Edited 2-8-2013 Vapor lock problems added at the end of article. GM 454 Engine Fuel Systems: The following information hopefully will help those that own and love the classic Coaches and wish to keep them running with the performance they were designed to provide. Covering fuel delivery, performance and starting in regards to the fuel system operation. Ignition system information is covered in the electrical thread. A M4MC or EM4MC carburetor was used on most of the 1980 series engines. This is an aspirated fuel delivery system with the addition of a mixture control system controlled by the ECM. It is not even close to the ECM used today. This fuel delivery system uses a mechanical fuel pump with the addition of an inline lift pump between this pump and gas tank on some systems to help prevent vapor-lock. This carburetor featured tamper-resistant controls to discourage readjustment of factory settings, which could affect either or both emission control and throttle response. This style carburetor uses a mixture control needle to control the fuel mixture with a dwell signal generated by the ECM. This dwell signal is set between 25 to 35 degrees; the optimal setting is 30 degrees. Repair and adjustment requires the use of very special fixtures to set the needle height and travel. That has a very profound effect on performance and throttle response. Throttle body injection (TBI) units. The next generation of fuel delivers to the engines. The main control sensor is the oxygen (O-2) sensor, which is located in the exhaust pipe. The sensor tells the ECM the amount of oxygen in the exhaust gas, and the ECM changes the air/fuel ratio to the engine by controlling the fuel injector. A 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio is required for efficient catalytic convertor operation. Because of the constant measuring and adjusting of the air/fuel ratio, the fuel system is called a “Closed Loop” system. Modes of operation: The ECM monitors voltages from several sensors to determine how much fuel to give the engine. The fuel is delivered under several conditions called “modes” All the modes are controlled by the ECM. Starting Mode: When the key is first turned “ON” the ECM turns on the fuel pump relay for two seconds and the fuel pump builds up pressure to the TBI unit. The ECM checks the coolant temperature sensor, throttles position sensor (TPS), manifold absolute pressure map sensor and crank signal, and then determines the proper air/fuel ratio for starting. This ranges from 1.5:1 at -36 degrees C (-33F) to 14.7:1 at 94 degrees C(201F) running temperature. The ECM controls the amount of fuel delivered in the starting mode by changing how long the injector is turned “On and Off” This is done by “pulsing” the injector for very short times. Clear Flood Mode: If the engine floods, clear it by pushing the accelerator pedal down all the way. The ECM then pulses the injector at a 20:1 air/fuel mixture ratio and holds this injector rate as long as the throttle stays open, and the engine is below 600 RPM. If the throttle position becomes less than 80%, the ECM returns to the starting mode. Run Mode: The run mode has two conditions called “open loop” and “closed loop” Open Loop: When the engine is first started and it is above 400 rpm, the system goes into “Open Loop”.) The ECM ignores the signal from the 0-2 sensor and calculates the air/fuel ratio based on the from the coolant temperature and MAP sensors. The system stays in “Open Loop” until the fallowing conditions are met: 1. The 0-2 sensor has a varying voltage output, showing that it is hot enough to operate properly. (This depends on temperature.) 2. The coolant temperature is above is above a specified temperature. 3. A specific amount of time has elapsed after starting the engine. The 7.4 L engine is designed to operate “Open Loop” at idle. The system will go to “Closed Loop” when the rpm is increased and all the above conditions are met. Closed Loop: The specific values for the above conditions vary with different engines and are stored in the programmable read only memory (PROM). When these conditions are met, the systems go into “Closed Loop” operation. In “Closed Loop” the ECM calculates the air/fuel ratio (injector time on) based on the signal from the 0-2 sensor. This allows the air/fuel ratio to stay very close to 14.7:1. Acceleration Mode: The ECM looks at rapid changes in throttle position and manifold pressure and provides extra fuel. Deceleration mode: When deceleration occurs, the fuel remaining in the intake manifold can cause excessive emissions and backfiring. Again, the ECM looks at changes in throttle position and manifold pressure and reduces the amount of fuel. When deceleration is very fast, the ECM can cut off fuel for short periods. Battery Voltage Correction Mode: When the battery voltage is low the ECM can compensate for a week spark delivered by the distributor by: 1. Increasing injector on time of fuel delivery. 2. Increasing the idle rpm. 3. Increasing ignition dwell time. Fuel Cutoff Mode: No fuel is delivered by the injectors when the ignition is “OFF”. This prevents dieseling. Also, fuel is not delivered if no reference pulses are seen from the distributor, which means the engine is not running. Fuel cutoff also occurs at high rpm to protect internal engine components from damage. Direct fuel injection systems work in much the same way. FUEL CONTROL OPERATION: The fuel control system consists of the fallowing components. 1. Throttle body injector (TBI) unit. 2. Fuel pump in tank (no engine pump). 3. Fuel pump relay. 4. Fuel tank 5. Accelerator control 6. Fuel lines. 7. Fuel filters. 8. Evaporation emission control system. The injector fuel control systems have a electric fuel pump, located in the fuel tank on the gauge sending unit. It pumps fuel to the throttle body and the direct fuel injector system through the fuel supply line and then through an in-line fuel filter. The pump is designed to provide pressurized fuel at 125 kPa (18psi.) A pressure regulator in the TBI keeps fuel available to the injectors at a constant pressure between 62 and 90 kpa. (9 to 13psi.) Fuel in excess of injector needs is returned to the fuel tank by a separate line. The ECM controls the injectors that are located in the fuel meter body assembly of the TBI. The injectors deliver the fuel in one of several modes. In order to properly control the fuel supply, the fuel pump is operated by the ECM through the fuel pump relay and oil pressure switch. Model 220 TBI unit: A model 220 consists of three major casting assemblies: 1. Fuel meter cover with: Pressure regulator. 2. Fuel meter body with: Fuel injectors. 3. Throttle body with: Idle air control valve (IAC) and the Throttle position sensor. (TPS) Vacuum Ports: The throttle portion of both the TBI units may contain ports located above, or below the throttle valve. These ports generate the vacuum signals for the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve, MAP sensor and the canister purger purge system. Fuel injector(s): The fuel injectors are solenoid-operated device, controlled by the ECM. The ECM turns on solenoid, which lifts a normally closed ball valve off a seat. Fuel under pressure is injected in a conical spray pattern at the walls of the throttle body bore above the throttle valve, or into the manifold or engine cylinder. The fuel which is not used by the injectors passes through the pressure regulator before being returned to the fuel tank. Pressure Regulator: The pressure regulator is a Diaphragm operated relief valve with injector fuel pressure on one side and air cleaner pressure on the other. The function of the regulator is to maintain a constant pressure at the injectors at all times, by controlling the flow in the return line (by means of a calibrated bypass) The pressure regulator on a TBI 220 unit is serviced as a part of the meter cover and should not be disassembled. Idle Air Control System: All engine idle speeds are controlled by the ECM through the idle air control (IAC) valve mounted on the throttle body. The ECM sends voltage pulses to the IEC motor windings causing the IAC motor shaft to move in or out a given distance a given step for each pulse often referred to as counts. This movement controls airflow around the throttle plate which in turn controls engine idle speed, either hot or cold. The IAC position counts can be seen using a scan tool. 0 counts correspond to a fully closed passage and 140 counts or more corresponds to full flow. This can change depending on the application. Actual or controlled idle speed is obtained by the ECM positioning of the IAC valve pintle. The resulting idle speed is generated from the total idle air flow passage + PVC+ throttle valve + vacuum leaks. Controlled speed is always specified for normal operating conditions. Normal operating condition is coolant temperature in operating range, the A/C is off, automatic in drive with proper Park/Neutral switch adjustment. A high or low coolant temperature, an A/C clutch engaged may signal the ECM to change the IAC counts. The minimum idle air rate is set at the factory with a stop screw. This setting allows enough air flow by the throttle valves to cause the IAC valve pintle to be positioned a calibrated number of steps (counts) from the seat during normal controlled idle operation. The IAC counts will be higher than normal on an engine operating at high altitude or an engine with an accessory load such as the alternator, A/C, power steering or hydra-boost brakes activated. Throttle Position Sensor: (TPS) The throttle position sensor (TPS) is mounted on the side of the throttle body opposite the throttle lever assembly. It's function is to sense the current throttle valve position and relay that information to the ECM. Throttle position information allows the ECM to generate the required injection control signals. If the TPS senses a wide open throttle a voltage signal indicating this condition is sent to the ECM. The ECM then increases the injector base pulse width, permitting increased fuel flow. As the throttle valve rotates in response to movement of the accelerator pedal the throttle shaft transfers this rotation movement to the TPS. A potentiometer within the TPS assembly changes its resistance (and voltage drop) in proportion to throttle movement. By applying a reference voltage of 5 volts to the TPS input, a varying voltage is applied to the TPS output. Approximately 2.5 volt results to a 50% throttle opening (depending on TPS Calibration). Fuel Pump Circuit: The fuel pump is a turbine type (1994), low pressure electric pump, mounted in the fuel tank. Fuel is pumped at a positive pressure ( 83kpa or 12 psi) from the through the in line filter to the pressure regulator in the TBI unit. Excess fuel is returned to the fuel tank through the fuel return line. 1994 and 95 years use a roller vain type pump rated at 210kpa (30psi). The fuel pump is attached to the fuel gauge sender assembly. A fuel strainer is attached to the fuel pump inlet line and prevents dirt particles from entering the fuel line and tends to separate water from the fuel. Vapor lock problems are reduced when using an electric pump because the fuel is pushed from the tank under pressure rather than being pulled under vacuum, a condition that produces vapor. When the key is first turned on without the engine running, the ECM turns a fuel pump relay on for two seconds. This builds up fuel pressure quickly. If the engine is not started within two seconds, the ECM shuts off the fuel pump and waits for the engine to start. As soon as the engine cranks the ECM turns the relay on and runs the fuel pump. On the 5.7 G van and all other 5.7 or 7.4 engines in vehicles over 8500 GVW, a fuel module will override the ECM and the fuel pump will run for approximately twenty seconds. The fuel module corrects for a hot restart (Vapor Lock) during a high ambient condition. When the engine is cranking or running the ECM receives distributor reference pulses which in turn energizes the fuel injectors. As a backup system to the fuel pump relay, the fuel pump can be turned on by an oil pressure switch. When the oil pressure reaches about 28kpa (4psi) through the cranking and the fuel pump relay does not complete the circuit, the oil pressure switch will close to complete the circuit to run the fuel pump. An inoperative fuel pump relay can result in long cranking times, particularly if the engine is cold. The oil pressure switch will turn on the fuel pump as soon as oil pressure reaches about 28kpa (4psi). Fuel Filter Part Number: The fuel filter number is 25055052, AC GF 481 in line filter, this filter is used to remove dirt from entering the Injector units. Located inside the Right frame rail and is a threaded style filter. This filter is used on the in tank fuel pump systems, where the fuel supply lines are under pressure. In-Tank Filter: A woven plastic filter is located on the lower end of the fuel pickup tube in the fuel tank. The filter prevents dirt from entering the fuel line and also stops water unless the filter becomes completely submerged in water. This filter is self-cleaning and normally requires no maintenance. Fuel stoppage at this point indicates that the fuel tank contains an abnormal of sediment or water; the tank should be thoroughly cleaned. High Altitude and temperature Vapor Lock: Results of Vapor Lock Investigation During the week of October 17, 1983, Chevrolet invited all Class A Motor Home manufacturers to the GM Proving Grounds in Phoenix, Arizona. The purpose of this meeting was to discuss the findings of the investigation into the cause. of vapor lock and to make specific corrective recommendations for current and future production vehicles (including changes in truck emissions) . The meeting was attended by 34 of 36 RV manufacturers . Chevrolet suggested that the RV manufacturers incorporate the following recommendations into current and future vehicle building, as well as develop some adaptation for problem units already existing in the field. The following recommendations were presented : A one-half inch steel fuel line mounted on the outside of the frame rail, protected against rub and chafe . " Also recommended is a pump bypass line along with a check valve. The 12-801 is a positive displacement pump and will not allow fuel flow if it stops running . The bypass, which closes under fuel pressure, will allow the engine mounted mechanical pump to pull fuel from the tank in the event of an electric pump failure. " The fuel requirements for the 454 engine at wideopen throttle are 25 gallons per hour at 2 PSI minimum and 3 PSI maximum. If fuel line lengths or routings create a situation where this cannot be met, an electric pump should be added at the fuel tank to supply fuel to the mechanical pump on the engine. Pressure in the supply line will further reduce the chance of bubbles forming versus a negative pressure situation with a mechanical pump only.