jleamont

Starting Cummins ISM/ISX During Storage

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jleamont   

Brett, just read (social media :wacko:) where Cummins recommends running the ISM and ISX frequently for a few minutes per week to stop Dielectric corrosion at the top of the piston liner.

can you ask your contact if that makes any sense? It was a first for me. Sorry not running them in short bursts came up and triggered my memory...

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wolfe10   
35 minutes ago, jleamont said:

Brett, just read (social media :wacko:) where Cummins recommends running the ISM and ISX frequently for a few minutes per week to stop Dielectric corrosion at the top of the piston liner.

can you ask your contact if that makes any sense? It was a first for me. Sorry not running them in short bursts came up and triggered my memory...

Inquire sent.

Brett

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jleamont   
3 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

Inquire sent.

Brett

Thank you.

Have you ever heard of anything like this? It contradicts the concept of completing a warm up cycle, and why only those two engines, there are others with liners. Kinda makes me wonder if it only affects certain years with some different metals internally causing a new concern. 

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manholt   

Joe.  You maybe right on, about different metals.  Unless you have the replacement for the sacrificial "Lamb", all your doing is post phoning the inevitable breakdown by dielectric or galvanic corrosion. 

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wolfe10   
11 hours ago, jleamont said:

Thank you.

Have you ever heard of anything like this? It contradicts the concept of completing a warm up cycle, and why only those two engines, there are others with liners. Kinda makes me wonder if it only affects certain years with some different metals internally causing a new concern. 

Yes, "normal wisdom" is: If you start an engine, run it long enough under load to get the OIL, not just coolant up to operating temperature.  Anything less adds moisture to the crankcase. For a diesel that generally means 25+ highway miles.

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2 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

Yes, "normal wisdom" is: If you start an engine, run it long enough under load to get the OIL, not just coolant up to operating temperature.  Anything less adds moisture to the crankcase. For a diesel that generally means 25+ highway miles.

Well it will be interesting to find out if it's true. Sounds like engineers coming up with a fix for something they messed up with little concern for what happens down the road. 

Bill

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Two pills and what one do you take - regarding down the road gremlins that just sneak up on everyone.

Maybe one just needs to pick the best day over a 10 day time line and take a half hr. road trip.

Rich. 

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Joe, you said you read about this on social media; my experience has been anything but reliable information comes from some social media sources. Elvis is alive and living on a tropical island was one of the latest posts I read.

I'm anxious to hear what your source has to say, Brett. 

 

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Rewillia   

We make it a practice to take our coach out of storage and drive it for at least 25-30 miles once per month at a minimum most particularly during months when our use is limited (i.e. Nov-Mar). The practice also serves to ensure we get the engine/trans. up to full operating temp while also running the generator with a load on it. As well we also run the slides out/in, run the HVAC systems, move water through the plumbing including the Oasis/Hot water system,  check tire pressures, brakes, air/hydraulics and observe for any abnormal conditions, etc..

Otherwise, we're averaging 12k miles per year actually using the coach which also drives us to ensure we're doing all recommended maintenance based upon both time and/or mileage (some of which we're doing a bit pre-maturely, i.e. oil changes, but feel its better to be proactive).

Overkill, some may say but I'm satisfied we're doing what's needed.

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jleamont   

I wont start ours up from the time its winterized (mid November) until the first trip (late March- early April) just for the reason of introducing moisture to the crankcase. With the roads treated with calcium chloride and rock salt after the first snow fall there is NO WAY I'm putting our coach onto that stuff. I have already postponed our first trip in previous years due to lack of rain to wash the caustic stuff off of the roads.

When I read about the corrosion issue causing liner jacking it just didn't make sense, but with the newer engines not being of the strength or quality of the older ones you just never know. I figured if I read it somewhere most likely many others did as well and would ask the question and better to get in front of it. The person advising got the info from a Cummins dealer technician, which as we all know could have been misinterpreted.  

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obedb   

Cummins probably has an 800 number for customer service.  I know that they did in 1977. Those guys started recognizing my voice because I called them many times. Had injector failure 9 times  averaging one a month and lost the camshaft at 90 thousand. All warranty paid for. Big Cam Cummins 400HP. Turns out the wrong Jake Brake had been installed and they repaired everything one more time even with it being out of warranty because it was a recurring problem.

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obedb   

My previous post is meant to show that things can repaired under warranty if you work with the right customer service reps, never lose your temper, and ultimately get them on your side. I usually wound up working with the same two or three reps. That was a help. They stayed with me and were always pleasant. They knew how to lean on the Cummins dealers for extra consideration, and that benefited me.

If your engine is out of warranty and needs some fixing, customer service might be able to help direct you to the right place for you to spend your money. Usually more $ per hour of service , but most of their mechanics really know what they are doing. Caterpillar has some really good dealers too. Cleveland Brothers in the Harrisburg PA area is also really good. The Cat dealer in Salt Lake City really helped me out once.  Of course working on an engine in a commercial truck is easier. Just raise the hood and it is all there and usually readily accessible.

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It will be interesting to hear more on this. I still haven't heard a good explanation why the ISX 600-650hp engines were dropping valves. I wish I could find some "facts" on that story. 

Bill

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wolfe10   

Stand by guys.  Heard from my contact at Cummins today. 

Before offering "THE ANSWER", he wants to run it by both engineers and service gurus. 

Will post when I get answer.

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wolfe10   

Just received this from Cummins:

 

Brett. 

I am not aware of a recommendation to run any of our engines “frequently for a few minutes.”  If your inquirer has a reference link or document, I would very much like to see it. 

Our current owner’s manuals do not contain information on how to prepare an engine for storage.  There is information in our service manuals for long term storage, mostly focused on engines that are not installed in equipment.

 

For Onan generators, we recommend exercising once a month with at least 50% electrical load for 2 hours to lubricate parts, expel moisture, and control fuel varnishing especially in gasoline generators.  Running for 2 hours is preferable to several short periods.

 

Current Cummins engine owner’s manuals don’t mention exercising.  However, Cummins has suggested in seminars that it is a good idea to start the drive engine while you are exercising the generator.  This has many benefits including: charges system batteries, lubricate components, expels moisture from the lubricating oil, and renews fuel in pumps and injectors.  There are options depending on your situation:

              Good – start and run at high idle (hit cruise set switch) until coolant reaches operating temperature

              Better – allow engine to reach operating temperature and drive the coach forward and back to lube axle and transmission components

              Best – go for a 30 minute highway speed drive

 

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cmarq   

Just my 2 cents.  The corrosion issue causing liner jacking referred to may be liner pitting on the coolant side  of the liner.  When I started working for Cummins Ct in 1964 it was a big problem. It was thought to be from tiny air bubbles caused by slight flex of the liner when the cylinder fired.  Back then it was common to find liners with holes all the way through allowing coolant into the cylinder. When liners were removed some would look like a shotgun blasted them.  After the use of SCA's in the cooling system the problem seemed to be solved.  The only time we saw the issue was when the SCA's were not maintained.    Just a thought.   I have been retired 15 years now so I don't know how the newer generation engines are.

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manholt   

Thank you for the information!

Like Jim, the "good", surprised me!  Total opposite of what has been hammered into my feeble mind, over and over again!!!  Since we don't spread salt on the roads, in my part of Texas, and my coach is garage kept, I will continue with my 50 mile loop and run the Generator at the same time each month, that I'm not at a rally!

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jleamont   

The "good" was a bit of a surprise also, my issue, it gets so darn cold up here it wont reach operating temperature without a load on the engine. With that being said its going to sit. I guess with my Fass fuel pump I can turn the key on and move fuel through the injection pump and back to tank, that is if I feel that energetic to do that much while I am in hibernation :lol:

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